Photo: Hanna Kossak
An Interview with Ewa Olejnik by Karina Fręśko
KF: Good morning, Ewa. We’re meeting today to talk about you and your life. Would you like to briefly introduce yourself?
EO: Good morning, my name is Ewa Olejnik. I work for “Salamandra” Polish Society for Nature Conservation, a nonprofit organization which I helped found back in the last century.
KF: Ewa, I know you’re a woman of many passions and many talents. When we met on the dance floor, I immediately thought of you as a colorful bird, and that’s what I called you in my mind… In a way, you confirmed this later in one of our conversations, when you said you were born to sing and dance. Do you remember?
EO: Yeah (laughs). But let me start by saying that my work also stems from my passion. I have a degree in environmental biology, and have always been close to nature. Nature has a profound effect on me, and I feel deeply a part of it. I feel alike with dancing and singing. Since I sing in a choir and dance in a group, I “practice” both as part of a larger whole. Now, looking back, I can clearly see the common denominator in all my activities. It all fits together really nicely. Not only do I love what I do, but I also feel a sense of mission to share with others.
KF: That consistency is enviable! But how have you come to that? Let’s break this down into steps and take a closer look at each activity. How did it all start?
EO: From what my parents told me, dancing and singing have been my passions since kindergarten. There I took a music and movement class with a really great teacher. Ms. Kocińska noticed me right away. She recognized my talents and wanted to help me develop them. As it happened, we also met in elementary school, where I was slowly gaining the courage to start singing in the choir. Ms. Kocińska was my music teacher and kept an eye on me. Following her advice and encouragement, I changed school in the 5th grade when there was a rezoning and staff reshuffle. You could say she took me with her to her new school. She strongly urged my parents to change school. She wanted to oversee my further development as a dancer and singer..
KF: That was a crucial moment. Someone recognized your talent!
EO: Yes. Thanks to my music teacher and my parents, who trusted her judgment, I was able to continue developing my skills under her expert guidance. At my new school, I was a member of a small vocal group consisting of eight girls. I sang in that choir until I finished elementary school, and I really enjoyed it. Even back then, I could feel how it carried me along and how much satisfaction it gave me. I felt that this was where I belonged. Around that time I also started learning to play the guitar and sing with guitar accompaniment.
KF: OK, so there was a teacher and support from the parents!
EO: Yes, indeed, there was support and understanding. My parents have always supported me, that’s really important. It doesn’t always come as part of the package. Here’s a first piece of advice for everyone just starting out… It’s worth listening to yourself! When we truly feel like ourselves, when we feel like we’re breathing our own air, or when we feel like a fish in water, so to say. Even if financial considerations, parental pressure, or any other external influences push you into becoming a lawyer or a doctor, it is worth looking within yourself and asking myself “What I really like?” and “What brings me joy?” Above all, it’s worth trying out a variety of things, because that way you have a chance to find your favorite field.
I was incredibly lucky. My parents wanted me to be happy and to do what I love, what makes me feel like myself. But if we happen not to have that support from our parents, then all the more reason to listen to our inner voice, be open to outside help and guidance, and seek out our “surrogate family,” as Clarissa Pinkola Estes writes in *Women Who Run with the Wolves*. Let your instincts speak and follow them regardless of conventions.
KF: In other words: listen to yourself, keep your eyes open, be open to outside guidance and find a support group.
EO: Yes, that too, but I’ve noticed in my own life that if a passion isn’t tied to a group, if it’s more of a solitary pursuit, then you can try to connect with a person who does a similar activity on their own, without a group. That works, too.
KF: Getting back to you and your lovely music teacher… So it was in elementary school when you discovered your passion and felt the call of the artistic path?
EO: Ha! Maybe it was even back in the kindergarten, but yes, I think I realized my passion already in elementary school. That’s when I started to get involved with greater awareness and commitment.
KF: Yeah, and time went by… You honed your skills, gave more performances, you mentioned the guitar…
EO: Yes, the guitar was a part of my life for a very long time, probably until I was in my 30s. I took that guitar everywhere, even on kayaking trips I carried it in my kayak. It was something that united people and brought the group together. I quickly realized that I was very social, so everything was intertwined. To this day, I love being part of a group that shares common goals and gets along well. All comes together nicely – music, singing, dancing and guitar. Group experience has always been important to me. It wasn’t about admiration for me it was about the sense of community, shared experience and living through it together, being together. I have realized this only recently. Now that we have greater access to psychological knowledge, I can say that I needed it for my mental health. Even when I was just playing and singing, there were people gathered around listening to me at a bonfire, we talked, some dozed off , but we were together. There was a sense of community.
KF: When you talk about this shared group experience and how it was essential to your mental health, it reminded me of Aristotle’s ideas and his famous triad. He believed that having friends was one of the keys to happiness. It is the greatest good that can happen to us coming from external world. The group was your “polis,” one of the three pillars of well-being. Alongside the psyche and the soma.
EO: Yes. I have brought joy and art to people. This is another passion of mine. Bringing joy to people. I have given and benefited from it myself. I’m not saying it’s Art with a capital “A,” but art that is important to people who all need to be involved in culture. As for me, I needed a little more and was looking for different approaches. I also had solo performances, and participated in student song festivals. It was also a chance to face my stage fright and put myself out there in a different setting. Yet it wasn’t until I was 30 that I actually joined a good chamber choir for the first time. First there was the Fermata choir, then Musica Viva, where I have sung since. Only after joining the choir I discovered the tremendous pleasure of creating music together. Creating as part of a group or team, where everyone has a role and responsibilities is amazing. Now I know that the brains of people singing together synchronize. After rehearsals I felt incredibly happy. Perhaps in time we will have more precise scientific evidence of the biochemical processes that take place in the brains of people singing together. Something really positive is happening already during rehearsals.
KF: And how does it feel during performances?
EO: There are other emotions involved in the performances. People applaud us, they’re moved, and sometimes even cry.
KF: Yeah… Emotions are with us everywhere. You have already said a lot about music and singing, but what about dancing?
EO: It started in kindergarten too . thanks to that same music and movement teacher.
My mom told me that once, when she came to pick me up from the after-school club, the teacher who was supervising us took her aside and said, “look at how she dances.” She must have realized that dancing came very naturally to me and that I really enjoyed it. I must have danced with a lot of passion, and the teacher must have liked it, since she got so excited by my dancing. That’s how it all began. After that, I just danced at various dance parties, which I made a point of seeking out. I liked it. However, I must also emphasize that I made a conscious effort to stay in shape. During my studies, I was constantly doing some kind of gymnastics, aerobics, Pilates and the like. However, I became more involved in dance which turned out a revelation after a certain turning point in my life.
A friend invited me to join a Dance Camp. I was 35 at the time. I knew there would be folk music there, which I have had absolutely no experience with before. At first, I even thought I might not like it, but I went anyway persuaded by my friend. I was also in need of a change at the time, so I decided to give it a try.
Just a thought—sometimes it’s worth trying things that don’t seem like they’re for us. Because until we try it and get into it, we won’t know the effect it has on us. The truth is, it’s worth trying new things for the rest of your life. We might just hit it off…
I went to that camp, and I remember very well that it started with a dance party at the castle. Subsequent dance parties were held at the old factory in the village of Chlewiska. But that first dance at the castle, that evening, when the couples danced obereks and waltzes and spun wildly in a beautiful setting! Incredible passion and energy in that dance made such a huge impression on me that I actually cried from the emotion. After that, I took part in dance workshops featuring Breton and Hungarian dances, as well as the Polish oberek… and the French mazurka. Live bands were playing. It was all so moving; it really got to me. Those colorful people, musicians, talented performers… All really captured my imagination.
KF: It even appeals to mine.
EO: You can feel that dance community. So, that’s when I met people who play music, sing, and dance. They sing folk songs, poignant songs that convey deep emotions. I remember one scene when, at dawn, on our way back from a dance, the girls and I were walking along the road and singing some Ukrainian song. It was summer, the scenery was breathtaking, and the energy electric. It moved me so deeply hat I simply felt that this was the moment worth being born for. You see… I’ve actually got back into singing! Yes, it all intertwines with me. I’ve mentioned before that I felt similar emotions when singing in a chamber choir.
More than once during choir practice, I realized just how happy and complete I felt. This is the moment when I know that everything is OK.
KF: That everything is in its place.
EO: Yes, everything is in its place. We sang together and shared the joy of creating something together. I don’t have any psychological training, and I can’t really put a name to it or explain it, but those were the moments when I felt such happiness and joy that I knew this was what I wanted to do. It occurred to me later when I was analyzing my memories from those rehearsals, and singing in that village that I did not share the narrative prevalent in our culture about a woman dreaming of marriage and children. I have never dreamed of that, and I was already able to name it back then. Yes, I dreamed of a man with whom I would be in harmony both spiritually and physically, but I also felt, though I didn’t realize it at the time, that what I needed far more were shared activities and spaces in which to pursue all these artistic endeavors as part of a group. I needed it more than just a model traditional family. Yes, I wanted that much more.
And so it began. I wanted more. I joined the folk dance community and started meeting people who were colorful, interesting, open-minded, and fun-loving. Joy was what bound me to them. I began to experience both partner dancing and circle dancing more deeply. Touch emerged as a new element. I realized that touch brought us even closer together, and could make our bonds even stronger. Touch is a primal need and something that unites mammals, and us humans too, on some level. When I talk about it, I see how all the pieces fit together, and I understand why it makes me feel so good, why I feel so at ease with it. I started out with Polish folk dances, and then someone noticed that I picked them up quickly and got me into Breton dancing. Breton dances serve to bring the community together, so once again we’re circling back to this function, and to my own need, of both uniting the group and sharing a common experience. You know that yourself, since you dance. Dancing in a circle, performing certain repetitive, trance-like movements that may also come naturally to us, likely acts as a mantra for the mind, calming us while uniting us as a community.
KF: They calm you down while simultaneously boosting your energy to a new level
EO: Yes, they make you feel good. We dance, everyone performs the same movements, and a new quality emerges, a structure. You are aware to be a part of it. That’s beautiful. I remembered a moment from the festival in which you also participated and perhaps witnessed this phenomenon…
KF: Are you talking about our Czech friend’s children?
EO: Yes, I especially remember the son of our friend from the Czech Republic—how old was he, 5 or 6?
KF: Yeah, he might have been about 6 years old.
EO: We were dancing a Breton dance in a circle; we were absolutely thrilled, dancing with passion and energy. Together, we created what I felt was a beautiful whole, and I could see the delight in the child’s eyes. Children are very sensitive to emotions. He could see and feel that something good and beautiful was happening. He scanned our faces, looked into our eyes, and absorbed our energy… Yes… So, getting back to the Breton dance group, I danced there for a year. There were also rehearsals, but this time for dancing, creating a shared quality. A friendship also began to develop between us.
KF: Just think of all the positive outcomes these activities bring!
EO: Yes, it may seem like “just” singing or “just” dancing, but once you get into it, you come to appreciate every aspect of it. I remember how much I missed that during the pandemic… I wasn’t singing or dancing, because I was afraid I might infect my elderly mother with something. I posted on Facebook that I really missed dancing and singing. Someone wrote to me saying that I could sing and dance, after all. Well, yes, I could sing and dance. But all those extra qualities that were so important to me were taken away from me.
KF: So dancing and solo singing just weren’t the same anymore.
EO: That also gives something, but without that essential quality; it’s not the same vibe. That’s when I started painting .
Around that time, my friends decided we’d had our fill of Breton dancing and it was time for balfolk. That was about 15 years ago, and has been going on until today, Like Breton dances, of course. Everything accompanies everything.
KF: Okay, here’s the second breakthrough. The first was the Dance Camp, which served as the catalyst that kicked off this great dance adventure, and the second turned out to be the pandemic. An obstacle that further highlighted the importance of singing and dancing in Your life.
EO: Yes, at that time I was deprived not only of the opportunity to sing and dance with the group. That’s when I had to stop teaching nature classes, which I love.
I even started to feel a bit depressed. I went to the doctor and got some medicine. However, when I unfolded the leaflet the size of that couch and read about all the side effects, I realized I knew what was causing my symptoms and that I wasn’t doing so badly after all, so I managed without medication. Instead, I started painting. I posted my work on Facebook, and it turned out that this was also a way to “uplift hearts” I used to paint on glass and decorate mugs, but then I’ve started drawing colorful abstract designs, as well as cheerful birds and nature-inspired motifs, something uplifting that would have a positive effect not only on me but also on other people. Here we are back to my theme of spreading positive vibes, bringing joy, and sharing smiles. I’ve been getting feedback from people saying that it makes them feel really, really good.
KF: Do you have a mission?
EO: Yes, although that’s a big word. I would call it a sense of purpose. It dawned on me that I felt this as the purpose of my life. It gives me great pleasure to spread such positive energy. The pandemic and my mother’s illness, which I had to deal with on my own forced me to come up with some ways to cope with the situation. Around that time, I started practicing yoga, which I highly recommend! But that was also when I really came to realize just how important our individual interpretation of reality is. How important is what we do about what happens to us, what meaning and significance we give it. I’ve even found some positives in my life during the pandemic. I stopped, got into it, and started to enjoy philosophizing and spreading good vibes all around. You called it a mission, and I called it a sense of purpose. By giving my meaning, I share this joy with others.
KF: Does that also mean you share an experience with others, and kindness come back to you?
EO: That as well. I am also aware that the joy I share with someone will be passed further to other persons. It gives me a sense of purpose on my own small scale. This is my everyday life. My brain has already learned that .
KF: Yes, but it was real work, involving reflection and action. Questions were asked and search was on. That’s what we like.
EO: Yes, yes, of course. Delving in and observing one’s feelings. In that sense, the pandemic gave some of us a chance to reflect on ourselves. This stop allowed me to take my time, reflect, and put names to things and situations. It helped me see what makes me feel good, what I want more of in my life. That’s when I also turned to therapy, not to get over depression, as this low mood was temporary. Instead, the questions that arose at that time were about how to live an even better and complete life. When I started therapy, I already knew where I was and where I wanted to go. So here’s a tip: you can benefit from therapy or a therapist’s guidance when you’re in good shape and have specific questions or issues to explore and work through..
KF: Oh… right… that’s the concept that a roof should be repaired in the sunshine.
EO: Yes, exactly. At that point, I decided to deal with my feeling of guilt.
KF: Oh… You too? Sounds familiar…
EO: I’m on the right track in the middle of it.
KF: Me too. I’m on the same right track.
EO: I think this advice applies to everyone, especially women.
KF: Yeah… those who’ve already realized this and who are bothered by it. Until then, as long as you go with the flow and don’t feel like it’s not yours, you just keep drudging like a good horse that’ll pull anything.
EO: Well, yes. Once it starts bothering you, you absolutely have to do something about it, and then life s becoming more beautiful.
KF: Well, your life is, I dare say, not entirely standard. You haven’t started a family, and you find happiness in many areas related to education, art, and play?
EO: Yes, I have never started a family, and my parents have passed away, though I still feel their presence with me. I feel like I’ve received so much support and love from them… These days, my family consists of my friends, most of whom come from the dance community. Not only do we dance together, but we also get together and talk. These are real conversations, where we see each other and take care of ourselves. We like spending time together, we help each other out, but of course we also go to festivals and have fun . Our bonds have continued to grow stronger, we share common experiences, and I feel like I’m not alone. I can count on my friends just as much as they can count on me.
KF: It is very encouraging to belong to a group which provides you with tangible support and strength.
EO: Yes, being part of a group gives us tremendous support. This social factor is cited as one of the most important ones when it comes to our well-being.
KF: Yes… the first thing that comes to mind is a book, or rather, a textbook, a primer, I’d say… “Man as a Social Being” by Aronson.
EO: Sure.
KF: Ewa, summing up our conversation… If you were to ask yourself today about a goal? Do you set any for yourself? Do you feel fulfilled?
EO: I don’t set any long-term goals for myself. I sail my course. I have been continuing this journey that I consciously set out on at some point. I sometimes invite new people I meet along the way to join me. They are open-minded people who don’t rigidly stick to set patterns, but are self-aware, share similar values, respect other people, and are curious about them.
I’ve also been dancing tango for many years, but only been learning to lead in tango since last year. It has a tremendous impact on our sense of agency and freedom, expands our opportunities for interaction, makes us more attuned to others, and increases the number of neurons! I would like to develop this skill. I’m also thinking about changing the singing formula.
However, I’m also open to the signals my body sends me, and it has already let me know that I have been overdoing, so I intend to listen to it, including when it comes to how intensely I pursue my passions. Sometimes the body gets tired first, even if the spirit remains excited.
KF: Oh, I totally get what you’re saying!
EO: Yes. I have reached the point where I want to do what makes me happy, but only to the extent that it doesn’t harm me. I can take care of myself at the stage of life I’m at now.
KF: And what about a dream on the horizon? Close or far?
EO: It has recently dawned on me that my dreams have come true and continue to come true. What I found in people’s stories, movies, and books, that made me feel excited and think, “I want that too!” is reflected in my own life. I am with a group of people who share similar values, having fun and working, laughing and being active, building relationships. I’m living the life I’ve always dreamed of. My only dream is to have the stamina and strength to keep doing what I do for as long as possible. In a sense, it is a goal, but it is also a journey.
KF: And that’s what I wish for you, Ewa! May your journey be long and bright! Thanks, Ewa, for the wonderful conversation.
